WATERMOTA
/ FORD PARTS?
|
How much of the Watermotor
petrol engine is Ford?
I understand it is the 105e block as fitted to an Anglia, but are the
distributor and carburettor the same, I suspect not!
Will points and condensers fit that were made for Ford Anglias?
|
Reply 1
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk
|
The whole engine is a standard 105e,
but there were two models, high compression for cars and low compression
for vans, and two capacities 997cc and 1198 cc.
The Ford range ran from Sept 1959 to 1968. after which they changed to
the crossflow engine.
The mods were only in removing the cooling water system and fitting a
spigot to the timing chain sprocket and fitting the waterpump to the timing
chain cover.
The distributer will be the standard Ford item, spares readily available
from Halfords?. According to the Haynes manual, there were 2 types of
carburetter fitted to Ford engines. Which one Watermota fitted, I am not
sure.
They show Solex B30PSE after May 1962,and Solex 30 ZIC from 1959 to May
1962 |
Reply 2
stephenwhitehead@btinternet.com
|
My Freeman is fitted with the Ford
Watermota 998 Engine. A couple of years ago I began to experience problems
with the motor cutting out for no apparent reason. This only happened
when the engine was warm, when it was cold it was no problem and was a
real good starter ( you know that feeling when the engine cuts out alongside
a bank full of fishermen hehe). On one of my many trips to try to locate
and cure the problem, I bumped into a fellow at Barnby Dun, (again I was
drifting aimlessly) who was an ex Freeman owner. He had come across the
problem in his Freeman days and told me that there had been a problem
with the standard Ford distributor, which as far as he was aware, had
never been cured.
He advised that I should fit a mark 2 Escort distributor, and that would
probably cure it. So off to the scrapyard and ten pounds lighter, I fitted
my distributor complete with new points condenser etc, and hey presto,
up to now it's been fine. If you do go down this route, make sure that
you get the locking ring as well as the distributor, I had to go back
to the scrappy for it. The Anglia locking ring will not fit.
As for the carb, mine was absolutely worn out and just had to be replaced.
I took the old one to a tuning specialist, who matched it up with a Fiesta
Carb. It was a bit of a fiddle (as usual with boats) to alter the throttle
coupling to make it fit, but the result is that the engine now runs like
a dream, and I am looking forward to being able to cruise tidal waters
once again.
|
|
I have a freeman 23 with a ford seawolf
engine. I think that there is a problem with the carb as when I am in
neutral it starts easily, ticks over fine and revs perfectly. Unfortunately
as soon as I engage gear and open up it seems to splutter as though there
is water in the petrol (which I dont think there is).Any ideas. The coil
has been replaced and the condenser. Should the coil get very hot? mine
does.
|
Reply 1
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
Other causes of Watermota misfiring are 1)
obstruction of a small air bleed in the slow running fuel supply and
2) holes corroded through the "hotspot" between the exhaust
and inlet manifold in non-crossflow engines. 1) is manifest as uneven
tickover and engine refusing to idle after a run. The offending item
is a hex headed brass jet at the back of the carb. by the throttle linkage.
When removed, it has a fine mesh wire filter which gets covered over
by dirt. Clean it and all is fine once more! 2) is a sheet metal disc
like a core plug which fits between the two manifolds and, if it gets
holey, exhaust fumes get into the inlet and the engine objects! This
all for info. in case any other poor soul is being driven mad the way
I was before I made a correct diagnosis! |
Reply 2
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
If it is a downdraft carb it could be that you
are opening the throttle to fast. This operates the accelerator pump on
the side of the carb and injects extra fuel into the engine. This is ok
for a car, but the drag on the prop makes instant acceleration difficult,
the engine then has a rich mixture and then splutters. Mine does this.
Solution open throttle slowly or remove accelerator pump linkage.
Yes the coil does run hot and can be a reason
for spurious engine cut outs particularly in hot weather and prolonged
slow running. Remedy Leave cabin access door open and/or move coil lower
down in engine compartment
bill@whighfield.fsnet.co.uk
|
Reply 3
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
Other causes of watermota misfiring
are 1) obstruction of a small air bleed in the slow running fuel supply
and 2) holes corroded through the "hotspot" between the exhaust
and inlet manifold in nomn-crossflow engines. 1) is manifest as uneven
tickover and engine refusing to idle after a run. The offending item is
a hex headed brass jet at the back of the carb. by the throttle linkage.
When removed, it has a fine mesh wire filter which gets covered over by
dirt. Clean it and all is fine once more! 2) is a sheet metal disc like
a core plug which fits between the two manifolds and, if it gets holey,
exhaust fumes get into the inlet and the engine objects! This all for
info. in case any other poor soul is being driven mad the way I was before
I made a correct diagnosis! |
Solution |
I have sorted the problem!
It was a faulty HT lead to one of the plugs. On tickover and revving it
was ok, but on load when put into gear it only fired intermittently. new
HT leads have sorted this and it runs like a dream, even accelerating
quite spuriously.
One tip for cleaning a carb though is to soak it in coke (diet even!).
This can dissolve any bits that may have passed the filter.
PS . Is there a paper pancake filter which will fit the carb to cut down
draught noise? |
LEAKING
ENGINE
|
Hi. We have owned our Freeman 22 MkII since March,
and think she is absolutely GREAT. However, we have unfortunately developed
a little problem that we would greatly appreciate advice on. After the
Watermota engine has been running (even if only for a minute or two) water
leaks from it. We can see it dripping from the bottom rear of the engine,
but cannot establish where it is actually coming from (as we think it
is just running externally to the lowest part of the engine). After a
long day out (about 7 hours motoring) at the weekend, we now have about
1.5 inches of water under the engine (we had dried it out completely prior
to the trip). Are there any 'typical' places where such leaks might occur,
which we could check? The engine has not been serviced for about 2 years
plus, how much should we expect to pay for a full service? |
Reply 1
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
Hi, Is your engine a ford cross flow,
ie carb on lh side and exhaust on Rh side when looking at the waterpump
end. I had two leaks on my engine one was from the connection to the temperature
gauge, the other was from the water cooled bend that the rubber exhaust
pipe connects. There were two problems at the bend, 1. the spray nozzle
was leaking due to a slight blockage, 2. there was a hole in the bend
due to corrosion. Cleaned out the nozzle and replaced the bend now OK.
I did have another problem in that the water passages in the head were
blocked, but this caused the crankcase to fill with water. The oil looked
like cream. Have a look down the oil filler hole, if you have a white/cream
deposit in there it indicates that the head gasket has blown, an interesting
project to renew.
One other thought, check the exhaust manifold and engine block drain valves.
They are a little difficult to see, but the block drain valve is on the
right side of the engine down low. The manifold valve is at the underside
of the manifold towards the rear. screw in to open, screw out to close
I think !!!! They do sometimes loosen, but if it is the drains, the water
in the bilge should be warm.
Regarding service, the main requirement is to change the engine oil every
100 hours running or once per season, change the oil filter at the same
time. This can be done yourself, but you need a pump to get the oil up
the dipstick pipe, cost about £20.00 Filter from Halfords, about
£5.
I also replace the spark plugs every season, but its being picky.
If you dont want to do it, get a handy mate, according to a list I have
from Boatyards you could be looking at £200.00 + for an engine service.
|
Reply 2
CAR@TALK21.COM |
Looks like water leaks from the X Flow Watermota
on Freeman 22 are quite common. I have had a leak on mine since I bought
it in June 2002.
Its a small leak and water comes out of the starter motor bendix hole
when starting. Only about a cup full but it keeps rusting up the Bendix
and I have to spin the starter motor end by hand to free it regularly.
I suspect that there is a small leak into the bell housing and the starter
ring picks it up after standing and it is thrown off by the starter pinion.
I think that the source is a slight leak in the core plug.
I shall take off the gearbox and bell housing in the winter and investigate.
Anyone else got any ideas where it may be coming from.
|
Reply 3
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
Hi There! I've had my Freeman 22 since 1978, now
keep it in France, she's done 3 channel crossings and I've done two major
engine/gearbox rebuilds. Water leaks; apart from Bill's advice, these
can also be corroded core plugs or pinholes corroded through the exhaust
manifold water jacket. Core plugs are the metal discs used to seal the
holes left in the block during the casting process and are usually mild
steel with a life of 25 years or so in my experience. they can be seen
in the head as well as around the block; also BEHIND the flywheel. If
this one corrodes, the water runs out the starter motor bendix gear which
can be confusing! They're easy enough to change, just knock a hole through
them with a suitable punch and lever them out, then tap in a new one,
carefully, with a hammer. The easy cure for a leaky exhaust water jacket
is proprietary plastic metal - a metal loaded epoxy resin -- and glass
fibre reinforcement. Basically, just slap it on and it works a treat!
I had to do this en route to Paris on the Seine last May, and it has been
totally dry since. As for the oil/water emulsion, this often results from
water leaking through the Jabsco water pump and getting into the sump.
Watermota now sell a splendid ball race pump which is immune from this
problem. |
Reply 4
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
Just another thought. Have a look at the waterpump
seals, when you are going. Whilst this is at the front end of the engine,
it is possible for leakage at this point to spray on the engine sump and
then find its way down to the rear end. |
LEAKING ENGINE
2
|
Hi. I'm afraid we have more questions regarding
our leaky engine! We have actually moved house since my last post, and
hence have only just had time to look into this again. It would appear
that the problem is most likely being caused by a corroded core plug behind
the fly wheel, as water is running out from the starter pinion housing.
Is the only way to access this by removing the gearbox and flywheel casing?
Does anyone have any tips or tricks that would assist us in doing this?
Also, we are still unsure what model engine we have. When looking at it
from within the cabin (from the water pump end), the exhaust and carb
are both on the right hand side.
|
Reply 1
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
Your engine is probably the 105E/997cc or the
123E/1198cc if its a ford base.
According to the manual I have for this engine there does appear to be
a core plug behind the flywheel, but I cannot be sure as the picture is
not very good. I have no hands on experience with this engine so have
no hints or wrinkles to make life easier |
Reply 2
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
Yes, it will be one of the non-crossflow OHV Ford
units. I can confirm that there is a core plug behind the flywheel, as
I had exactly the same symptoms on my 22 footer some years ago, jolly
cofusing when water comes out of the stater motor! To fix it, you will
need to remove the gearbox and bellhousing as a unit; support the engine
sump on a small scissor jack and blocks of wood, undo the two gearbox
rubber mount securing bolts, jack up the gearbox and undo the fastenings
around the bellhousing. The propshaft flange bolts should be undone and
the flange split; then the shaft should slide back far enough to give
you enough space to remove the gearbox/bellhousing unit. Once youv'r got
to the flywheel itself, this must be undone and removed; a puller may
be necessary and be careful cos it's heavy. Once that's off, you will
be able to see the core plug; prise it out and drive in a new one, then
mantle it all up again. Don't forget to check the shaft alignment with
a suitable feeler gauge, you must have both sides of the flange parallel
to avoid vibration. It's a good mornings work, nothing too complicated;
you'll need a torque wrench to tighten the flywheel bolts, can't remember
the figure but any Ford main dealer should be able to give it. Think about
changing ALL the core plugs while you're at it, one dose of misery is
better than drip drip drip... |
Reply 3
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
Hi. According to the engine manual the torque
for the flywheel bolts is 45 to 50 lbs.ft |
ENGINE
OVERHEATING
|
I have an overhead
valve ford watermotor engine in my Freeman mk 1. It over heats. The water
pump is new and working. I think there is dirt, rust, a blokage of some
kind that is reducing the circulation. I am not seeing as much hot water
coming out of the exhaust as other similar boats.
How can I flush out or improve the cooling water circulation |
Reply
1
Emmett Gleeson |
I also have a Watermota
1600cc (Diesel) on my Freeman 23
I had the same problem & I removed the thermostat & drilled a
1/8" hole on it and i never looked back
|
Reply 2
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
This hole is very important
as without it the air cannot be displaced from the engine cooling circuit
as the thermostat will be closed at start up. All the water from the pump
will go via the bypass to the exhaust bend. The thermostat will not open
very fast if at all in air as air is a poor conductor of heat. Every time
the engine shuts down there is a tendency for the water to backflow thro
the pump giving an air pocket in the head so this lack of cooling in the
head can be evident frequently.
The original thermostat fitted by Freeman had a small plastic non return
valve fitted in the hole to stop the water draining out, but this tended
to cause problems when it got fouled with sand, small bits of leaves and
bits of scale, so you ended up with overheating on start up, so just a
small hole works fine. Remember however that on direct cooled engines
the operating temperature of the thermostat should not exceed 80 C. |
Reply
3
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
My 1200 cc Watermota
has no thermostat! The only time it's ever overheated the problem was
either the inlet water filter blocked, the actual inlet itself covered
with a polythene bag, or a small bit of crud blocking the union where
the copper pipe takes the cooling water from the thermostat housing on
the head to the exhaust. A good test would be to undo the copper pipes
in sequence - the most likely cause is an obstruction of the exhaust water
injection fitting, so undo that first and then run the engine - briefly(!)
- and if the water gushes out of the pipe, you've found the problem. If
none of our suggestions work, it may be that the cylinder block water
jacket around the cylinders themselves is full of crud. Being raw water
cooled, these engines will accumulate small paricles which get through
the inlet water filter. These all mount up in the block, starting with
no.4 cylinder as it's the lowest. Bit by bit the block fills up! The cure
is to remove the core plugs, flush through the block with a hose and scrape
away with a bent coathanger inside the cooling jacket until it's clean,
then fit new core plugs. This is something I've now done twice in 25 years,
both times when the engine needed other attention. The best bet is to
be systematic and work through the pipes, undoing each one and checking
for water flow until you find the blockage.
|
Reply 4
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
Few simple things first:
1) The cooling spray nozzle in the exhaust bend is blocked with scale.
Remove the rubber hose and poke a rod thro it, or unscrew it and clean.
2)The spring on the water bypass valve has disintegrated, this is in the
rubber tube that goes from the engine water inlet to the thermostat housing,
but if you are not getting much water out of the exhaust its probably
not that. New spring from Sheridan.
3)The thermostat is faulty, does not open. Remove and put in a saucepan
of cold water and gradually heat up, it should open well before the water
boils. If not replace, BUT NOT WITH A CAR THERMOSTAT, it must be an 80
C unit no higher.
4)Are you sure the pump impellor has all its teeth, remove pump cover
and have a look, but if its new probably O.K.
5)If all this fails it could be the cylinder head is blocked with scale,
This was the problem I had on my crossflow engine. Was impossible to remove
the scale completely with acid or mechanical means so got a replacement
from motor wrecker yard, £20 and £90 to have it refirbed and
valve seats reground. This was caused by previous owner fitting a car
thermostat. The operating temperature is stamped on the bottom of the
capsule and should be 79 C. (174 F).
6)You can try radflush, you would need to run a hose from water tap to
the exhaust bend spray and have that running on cold water.
Then get a large plastic container (10 gallon) with a hose connection
at the top and bottom.
Connect bottom connection to inlet of water pump, top connection to outlet
of thermostat. remove the thermostat and replace cover before starting
the clean and remove the bypass valve and hose and blank off the two connections.
You can replace the bypass rubber hose with a piece of garden hose and
use a clamp to stop water flowing thro this bypass.
Half fill tank with water/cleaner mix obtained fom Halfords and run the
engine and observe what comes out, if very little, worry the head is blocked.
You may have to shut down and let the tank contents cool when they get
to hot so could be a long job, the mix does not work very fast.
If happy, replace acid mix with water and flush out engine then use a
neutralising solution, another black bottle from Halfords. After all this
and many G & T's reconnect everything as it was and try again.
P.S I dont know how compatable the water pump case material is to the
cleaning fluid but car rads are non ferrous material so it should be OK.
|
| Follow up to original
Question |
Many thanks for the
various theories and remedies. I have established that hot water is indeed
being pumped through the system. I believe the problem may be in an antiquated
wet exhaust which undulates along the sole of the boat , i think hot water
and steam are building up and reducing the outflow of gasses and water.
|
Reply 5
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
An iteresting theory!
The flexible exhaust pipe could collapse internally, the structure delaminating
and the internal rubber obstructing the exhaust; but this giant increase
in backpressure would result in very poor engine performane - if it would
start at all. If the exhaust gases are getting out, so should the cooling
water. The most likely obstruction is still the water injection point
where the cooling water enters the exhaust; run a suitable sized drill
through it to make sure, once you have checked that water flows liberally
from the disconnected pipework. If all seems OK, and you don't have -
for example - some badly distorted copper pipes restricting the flow,
it may be that all your cooling jacket around the cylinders is full of
river bottom crud. Then again, perhaps your temperature gauge is faulty!
Check it by immersing the bulb from the cylinder head in some boiling
water. I had kittens once when my oil pressure warning lamp told me I
had no oil pressure, one very soggy day betwixt Reims and Epernay, just
before the tunnel. This turned out to be the pressure sensor becoming
temperature sensitive, putting some ice cubes on it restored the correct
indication and (after a three mile walk to the local Ford garage) fitting
a new sensor cured the problem! It's also possible for a poly bag or some
such to obstruct the inlet - butif you've got a copious flow from the
disconnected injection pipe it won't be that. |
SOLUTION
alexwilliams@beeb.net |
Many thanks to the many
responses to my requests for help.
I worked my way around the cooling system several times and found no blockage.
Not until the pressure started to build between the pump and the manifold
did it become clear that the problem was to do with the manifold cooling
jacket. The elbow underneath had been acting as sump and had become blocked
with rust and dirt.
Now the engine is running at a lower temperature, load of water being
chucked out of the backend. What a relief. |
ENGINE
RUNNING TEMPERATURE
|
On my Freeman 26 how
hot the engine should run. I have the non standard Smiths electrical temperature
gauge fitted with a new "matched" sensor too suit. After idling
for 15 minutes, wand not in gear, the gauge was sat at 30 degrees which
is the start of the gauge scale anyway. What should it be, or what do
your boats run at? |
Reply 1
Simon |
Firstly, I think you
ought to buy a manual from Sheridan Marine 01491-652085. Tempreture wise,
my 22' builds to about between 60 to 70 degrees (Ford 1100 crossflow)
then the stat opens, drops to zero, cloud of steam from exhaust, then
it starts again taking about 10 to 15 mins while cruising. |
Reply 2
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
The correct thermostat
temperature for a 1100 crossflow is 78 degree c, but is there a thermostat
fitted at all. Some owners leave it out and the engine then runs very
cold. Mine runs from 75 to 82 C, higher temperature when running slow
due to less output from the pump .
If you fit a new stat there should be a small hole drilled thro the mounting
flange as near the stat orifice as possible. This is to let the air out
on start up when the stat is closed. Without the hole you get no water
in the engine for a long time.
|
WATER
IN ENGINE OIL
|
I have very recently
purchased my first Freeman cruiser, a 1967 22' Mk11 and have discovered
what I feel may be a serious engine fault, which I hope someone out there
can advise me on.
The engine in question is a Ford Watermota Sea Wolf 105E.
The boat had been left virtually unattended for approximately 18 months
to 2 years and although grubby, is in very good condition. As I had been
looking for a Mk11 for some time, I contacted the owner to enquire if
he was willing to sell and after many weeks, he agreed. I went to view
the boat on two occasions and naturally wanted to hear the engine running.
I dipped the oil prior to start up and all looked OK, but the oil naturally
needed changing. The owner advised me that it had last been changed about
2 years ago. The engine ran well and a deal was done. Because of the onset
of winter, I asked the owner to winterise the engine, which he duly did.
However, I did not like the thought of two year old oil sitting in the
sump for another four months and therefore decided to change it, as well
as making sure that the engine had been winterised correctly. I subsequently
bought the correct oil removal pump, oil and filter, ran the engine until
warm and then proceeded to remove the oil. To my horror, the fluid that
came out resembled milky coffee and my immediate thought was a cracked
block or failed cylinder head gasket.
As this oil had been standing for so long, I thought that it could be
a build-up of condensation and proceeded with the oil change and ran the
engine with fresh oil until warm. The lube on the dipstick was yet again
very milky. At this point, I contacted someone with more knowledge than
myself and he told me not to worry unduly at this stage, as it was unlikely
to be either of the suspected problems and said that it can sometimes
take up to three oil changes to remove water from a long standing engine,
or that it could be a fault with the water pump.
As I am anxious to know if I have bought myself a duff engine, I proceeded
to buy more oil and filters and have now changed the lube four times and
the filter twice, and on each change the oil was yet again very milky,
despite having been run for only minutes at a time i.e. the contamination
happens very quickly. After the final change, the oil on the dipstick
is still milky, although maybe not quite as bad as before.
Therefore, if it is not a cracked block or cylinder head gasket as my
advisor feels, could it be the water pump, or could it be that I am just
not able to remove all of the contaminated sediment in the sump with the
oil removal pump?
Is it possible that the water in the oil will evaporate when the engine
is run for a prolonged period?
I am naturally very worried about this and would therefore welcome some
pearls of wisdom from my fellow Freeman owners and hope that the news
is not all bad.
|
Reply 1
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
NO NEED FOR DESPERATION!
The most probable cause is the waterpump. The original waterpump has a
plain bronze sleeve bearing lubricated by a screw in greaser. The bearing
wears, water gets through it and goes straight into the sump. There should
be a hole under the pump housing which is supposed to allow any such water
to drain out of the bearing, but it doesn't. I got a new, redesigned pump
from Watermota - this has a ballbearing, better seals and a more open
structure which allows any water leaks to leak harmlessly into the bilge.
With the old pump, it was essential to keep the grease cap full and the
pump well lubricated with the correct grease - waterpump grease is not
suitable for this as it's too hard, a softer grease is needed. Best to
change the pump; the new one is lubricated by the engine oil so needs
no regular attention. Cost about £120 I think. This was 5 years
ago and no problems since. I have left the engine unwinterised all winter
on several occasions with no damage, so they don't seem to be susceptible
to cracked blocks or the like. Cylinder head gaskets or cracks generally
just give steam in the exhaust and no oil contamination; given that the
engine is raw water colled, the supply isn't likely to run out!!
|
| Follow up to original
Question |
Many thanks for your
prompt response. Having spoken to several people since sending my plea
for help, I had come to a similar conclusion. I have now replaced the
grease in the water pump grease cap for Castrol LM, which is a soft lithium
based grease and will have to wait for my next birthday for a new pump.
Another query which I would value your opinion on is, how many adults
can a Freeman 22 safely carry?
|
Reply 2
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
A few more pointers...
If you are just flushing out contaminated oil, buy the cheapest multigrade
oil youcan - when I had to do it, I found some dreadful stuff for £1.25
for 5 litres (!) - as it's only in there for minutes, it can't do any
damage! Then, once it's all clear, replace with a suitable 20/50 multigrade,
Castrol os Duckhams. After I did a comprehensive engine rebuild on my
22 footer, I have used synthetic oil but I don't recommend this for a
well used engine as the detergent effect will tend to wash all the accumulated
crud out of the oilways and produce leaks and accelerated wear. I would
very much recommend changing the pump; I replaced mine with a rebuilt
standard pump and then with a new standard pump, but the problem recurs.
The new pump is immune. It is essential to ensure that the axis of the
pump is co-axial with the axis of the camshaft; it is driven by an offset
dog from a drive plate on the end of the cam and it is possible (I've
seen it ) to assemble it 180 degrees wrongly - this makes the pump wobble
about for a bit before it snaps! AS for your query about how many people
22 footers can carry.....I've had 8 large drunks! Also "Trillium"
was once used to ferry steel pilings out to an island in the Thames and
was loaded until the exhaust was just above water, a bit odd to steer
but she took it well. Basically, if it will fit on the boat you should
be all right on inland waters. Don't go to sea overloaded!!!! |
Reply 3
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
Did the new grease cure
the problem, I went through a similar exercise about 5 years ago with
a 1300cc crossflow engine. Pump did not have a greaser but was of the
open type, but had similar advice so replaced the pump unit, but the problem
continued. In the end traced this to a cracked cylinder head between no
2 & 3 cylinders, which had been brought about by the waterways in
the head being completely blocked with scale. Bought a head from car breakers
for £20 and the problem went away. The blockage was probably caused
by the previous owner fitting a car thermostat (105 C) instead of the
correct 79 C . At the higher temperature the tempory hardness scale is
precipitated rapidly and is impossible to completely remove from the small
head passages. |
GEARBOX
OIL CHANGE
|
My Freeman 22 Mk11 is
fitted with a J type gearbox, but in the maintenance manual supplied by
Sheridan Marine, no details are given regarding gearbox servicing. Although
it is probably obvious, I would appreciate some hints and tips on how
to drain the box and how to refill. Also, what gear oil should be used? |
Reply
1
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
THERE is a drain plug
under the gearbox, but it's difficult to get at and dumps all tho oil
into the bilge. Best way is to remove the gearbox top - just 4 bolts,
one at each corner - the gasket should survive, mine has for 20 odd years
(!) - and then use your engine oil drain pump to suck out the oil, stick
th pipe right down the bottom of the box past the internal gubbins. Then
replace the top, use asmall funnel to refill the box with ordinary 20/50
engine oil to the mark on the dipstick. Should be done once a year, otherwise
the gearbox can exhibit slipping or other problems. CHANGE THE OIL IN
THE CHAIN FINAL DRIVE AS WELL!!! This is also best done with the engine
oil drain pump, unscrew the filler adaptor from the chain case and wriggle
the plastic pipe to the bottom of the chain case and suck out the contents.
Again, refill with engine oil until it comes out of the level tap a t
the back of the box. |
Reply 2
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
Some J boxes have
a tube for getting out the oil.Mine has and it is situated on the starboard
side of the box and fitted with a screw top. If yours has this, just
connect the suction pump to this (as per the engine ) BUT NOTE THAT
THE TUBE GOES TO THE CHAIN CASE AND IT TAKES A WHILE FOR THE OIL TO
GET THRO FROM THE MAIN BOX.
Its better to do the oil change when the oil is warm.use the same oil
as the engine, but do not overfill.
I change mine at the same intervals as the engine, every 100 hours running,
but once a year will do. |
Reply 3
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
VERY Interesting!! ON
my beastie the chain case and gearbox are totally seperate, own discrete
oil supplies, no connection between the two.... So much for standardisation!
The chain reduction drive is a giant man eating triplex thing which, being
in an oil bath, don't wear as long as its got nice clean oil. |
| Follow up to original
Question |
Many thanks for your
help, which I will put into action as soon as I go to the boat. I have
just one problem, and that is that I have no illustration of the gearbox
and as such I do not know where the chain case filler adapter actually
is. I assume that the chain case will be between the engine and gearbox,
but can you tell me where and what to look for. |
CLUTCH
PROBLEM
|
Could you confirm what sort of clutch arrangement
for a105E/997cc or 123E/1198cc engine is likely to have (centrifugal?
fluid?) as we are getting a bit of 'clunk' when switching between forward
and reverse? |
Reply 1
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
With regards to your query about a clutch; the
Watermota type gearbox does not have a seperate clutch as such. There
is a drive pinion bolted to the flywheel, and the gearbox itself has multiple
clutch plates in it, which are squeezed together by a toggle mechanism
when "ahead" is engaged by pushing the Giant Lever forward.
This locks the gearbox shafts together and provides the ahead drive. Reverse
is obtained via a set of planetary gears, engaged when the lever is moved
backwards, which squeezes a brake band around the gear assembly, stopping
it from rotating and thus , via the internal gears, reversing the roation
of the output shaft.It is essential that the throttle is closed before
gears are engaged, especially when changing from ahead to astern, otherwise
all sorts of undesireable stresses and strains are put on the mechanism.
If the throttle isn't closed, a "clonk" will be very apparent.
When you remove the gearbox to do the core plug, the drive pinion will
be obvious, bolted to the flywheel. It is very easy to damage the oil
seal at the front of the gearbox on the gear teeth, so be careful, and
perhaps use some sellotape or suchlike over the teeth; I can't remember
quite how I did it, but it wasn't a huge problem
|
FREEMAN
22
JUMPING OUT OF GEAR
|
We have a Freeman 22 which we use
on the Chesterfield Canal, and we are hoping to venture onto the Trent
eventually (we are novice boat owners!)but find when we come to give the
boat more throttle she jumps out of gear- any suggestions?
|
Reply
1
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
You do not say what
gearbox you have, but presume its the "J" box with the floor
lever. Assuming the gearbox slips when the lever is in forward, the problem
is the clutch slipping. If its the lever that returns to neutral then
its the toggle assy that is at fault
Adjusting the clutch is fairly simple.
First take out the filling plug and remove the four nuts on the cover.
Use your finger in the oil fill hole to pull the cover up straight. You
may need to ease the gasket with a Stanley Knife. Be careful as you need
the gasket again!!!
You should then see in the centre of the box a componant about 3 ins dia
and 4 inches long. This is the clutch housing. The stern end is castellated
(Notched)) At the stern end is a screwed in plug that is attached to the
operating cams.
With the box in neutral turn the clutch housing until you see a retainer
the end of which fits into one of the castellations. Keep this retainer
at 12 o-clock.
Undo the retainer bolt but do not remove else it may drop into the gearbox
and you would have to turn the boat upside down to get it out.
Now put the gear lever in reverse, which stops the clutch drum from moving
and turn the plug clockwise so that the retainer goes into the next castellation
to the right.
Tighten up the retainer bolt, put the lid back on and try.
It may still slip but at a higher rev and then you have to repeat the
exercise until it stays in at about 2500 rpm.
It should not take more than moving 3 castellations to cure the slip,
however its very sensitive and if you go more than necessary it makes
putting into forward gear very difficult and the force can crack the drum
so one castellation at a time.
Change the gearbox oil while you are at it. Use same oil as the engine.
|
|
Can anyone recommend a product or treatment for
the windscreen frame. I,ve tried different metal polishes but can't get
rid of the stain. |
Reply
1
lewisset@aol.com |
I have found 'Autosol' to
work well, it comes in a tube (available from most car shops) apply
with a damp cloth, rub in avoiding the rubber polish off with a dry
cloth. It is tedious but brings the ali up nicely. |
FREEMAN
24
LEAKING WINDSCREEN
|
Our Freeman 24
is appx. 24yrs. old. There is an annoying leak at the lower corners
of the windscreen glass. I have siliconed around the outside, but it
still weeps. How easy is it to remove the frames and 're mastic' around
them? |
Reply 1
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
If the glass is put
in with a plastic moulding it is very difficult to remove and reseal effectively.
If fixed in with a compound, you can dig this out by using a thin blade
but it must be removed at least 8-10 mm deep and it is a fiddly arduous
job. When it is removed, protect the glass and frame with masking tape
and refill using a good black auto type sealant, smooth off allow to skin
over and remove masking tape.
If its only a weep have you tried the stuff that Dow Corning make that
is runny enough to find small leaks. It is available from most chandlers.
|
FREEMAN
26
LEAKING WINDSCREEN
|
Can any one help me
locate someone who can supply or make a windscreen for my Freeman 26.
Ihave tried Sheridan they quote 1 year wait. |
Reply
1
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
I used:
Marine Windows,
The Boatyard,
Mill Green
Caversham
Reading
RG4 8LX
Phone No: 0118 9432664
They confirm that they can supply your needs.
The contact is Paul Hughes
Phone 0118 948 2664
Mobile 07836 250219
They have recently done a full fold down screen for the 24.
They did a good job on my 23
|
WINDOW
RUBBER REPLACEMENT
|
Can the window frame
to bodywork rubber be replaced by a D.I.Y,er or is it a job for a pro.
I've got a leak on the window above the table. |
Reply 1
barrywoods@btinternet.com |
I completely refurbished
window frames and refitteed with new rubber on my '22'. It is within diy
capability. Make sure you allow a healthy overlap when cutting the rubber
to the length of aperture of window and then you can always trim down.
Trying to cut length exactly will probably result in a small leaky gap
and the rubber will compress to a tight fit if cut over long. The special
tool is well worth the cost of probably only a fiver. |
Reply
2
peteribbon@aolt.com |
I'm having the same
problem as yourself so I've ordered the rubbers from John Freeman's. I'm
not sure what is in store but will be having a go fitting them this weekend
.I can't see as it will be to difficult, but you need a special tool which
I have borrowed. Will let you know just how I got next week
P.S: Window rubbers for the 22 mk2 are £213.34p. |
Reply
3
peteribbon@aolt.com |
The problem I had even
with the small windows on my 22' was it is a two person job, but overall
it wasn't that hard.At first I got one small window out by running a stanley
knife all round the very brittle rubber then with a good tug it came out.Then
i hit a few snag's the (8) small screws that hold the two outer frame's
together broke so i had to drill out and replace with self tappers also
the upright window stay was rusted up so the same thing applied. Even
with loads of WD 40 they were not going to mov,e so I replaced them with
stainless self tappers (BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO DRILL THE ALUMINIUM FRAME
AS THE DRILL BIT HAS A HABIT TO SLIP OFF THE BRASS ).Only managed to do
these this weekend but will be at it again next weekend weather permiting.
The price Iwas quoted £250.00 that was just for fitting the main
rubbers, not the other bits and bobs. |
FREEMAN
26' LEAKING WINDOW
|
After finding a
leak on the large cabin window on my 26, I decided to remove it and
repair with mastic tape.
On removal of the window I found the plywood was water logged and delamination
had occured. I am in the process of drilling holes to dry the wood out,
but would like to know if there is anything I can inject back in to
solidify the wood again (in the same way foam can be injected back into
the cabin roof).
I havent had the boat long so the leak had been going on for a while
and this also serves to warn others not to leave leaks but repair straight
away!
As the wood is now too soft for the original screws to bite into I am
now going to use stainless steel screws right into the cabin with dome
nuts so they are not to unsightly.
|
Reply
1
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
I had this problem with
my cabin doors, the bottoms had delaminated and went soft. I used a resin
wood repair solution obtainable from DIY stores.
I think it was a Ronseal product and is liquid enough to flow down the
laminations, brush it on and then clamp until it sets, wood ends up solid
as a rock.
|
|
My cabin floor is on its last legs. Can any one
tell me the best way to replace it. Also, any tips on condensation |
REPLY
1
Simon Lewis |
I had to replace
all my cockpit floor too. I used 18mm marine ply and sealed it with
(I think) aluminium paint (it was grey and non shiny and I'm pretty
sure I bought it from a chandlers) As far as condensation is concerned,
I used to have the cabin ceiling painted with white eggshell, last year,
I changed this to white matt emulsion-this has improved the situation
considerably. I also use crystals (available from chandlers) that attract
vapour and deposit it at the bottom of the container. Is your boat fitted
with enough air vents? Compulsory for your safety certificate! |
Reply 2
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
The original
floor was blockboard, but marine ply is a good, but more expensive alternative.
I sealed mine with grey bilge paint on the edges and underside and covered
the top with "Trackmark" deck covering with great effect.
Painted my cabin with International anti condensation paint. White from
B&Q. very successful
|
|
Of course it always happens when the sun shines.
My Freeman 22 Mk2 circa1965 is not behaving as it should.
Noticing a wet patch on the starboard side of the cockpit at the end of
our last trip about a fortnight ago, I found the leak was coming from
the lower hot water tank. ( I believe it is called a califier, or something
like that. ) Two stainless steel tanks and it was the lower one which
was squirting water from the end seam and also from the lower pipe which
is obviously the drain. All being stainless it was a job beyond me and
my soldering iron. Removing the tanks I took the offending one to a local
engineering firm who appear to do quite a bit of work with stainless steel.
I am waiting for them to ring me and say it has been soled and heeled
and is ready for collection. During this wailing time I am of course imagining
the worst. Supposing they tell me it is not worth repairing!!! What will
I do?
Are these two tanks (calirifiers) standard equipment on this boat or are
they an optional extra? Is a replacement available should that be necessary.
While I'm praying that the occasion will not arise, is such such a part
a standard replacement? |
Reply 1
bill@freemancruiser.co.uk
(Webmaster) |
Ken, Unless it's really bad it can probably be
fixed.My pal had the same problem the other week and a local welder repaired
it O.K. He also informed him the problem was caused by a pressure release
valve not fitted in the system, so he was lucky he didn't blow the side
out of his boat. As for a new calorifier, there are quite a few companies
who supply them in various shapes and sizes so if the worst comes to the
worst you'll have no problem getting one. |
|
I need to take the water tank out of my Freeman
24. Is it a big job? |
Reply
1
lewisset@aol.com |
It's really easy, just release the
metal restraining strap (having emptied the tank first)undo the pipe and
it's out! Getting the stap tight on replacement is another matter tho' |
|
I would like to buy a Freeman as a first boat,
preferably something like a 22 up to 26ft. Will they plane? If so, what
would I need to do to it to make it plane,e.g what size engines. |
Reply
1
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk
|
The
Freeman 22, 23 and 26 are pure displacement boats and are not designed
to get on the plane.
The later 24 to 32 ft boats have hulls suitable to allow faster speeds
than pure displacement speeds (The ones with rectangular windows.) To
get a 24 above displacement speed you would need about 120 hp rising
to twin 120 hp for the 30s and above.
Displacement boats need very small engines to achieve max speed (in
the order of 6 to 8 knots) hence the 40 to 50 hp units normally fitted
in the 22 23 & 26.
If you need to go faster than this suggest
you look at a 24 with engine up to 100 hp.
I believe the old type 30/32 can be driven
above displacement speed with twin 110 hp engines.
|
|
I own a Freeman 24 with an 1100 Ford
Seawolf engine. Although the previous owner told me that the engine was
capable of a top speed of 10 knots, I have ben unable to take if beyond
6 knots, despite the fact that the engine has been superbly serviced by
an experienced engineer and runs like a dream.
Was my information regarding top speed incorrect and the boat underpowered
by the 1100 engine - or is there some way of improving the performance?
|
|
I agree with estimate of about 6
knots as a top speed for the 24 with approx 50 hp engine. Our boat had
a 48 hp diesel and would do 6.5 knots if thrashed. However the 24 does
have a planing hull of shallow V form, albeit with a 3/4 length keel,
and will plane with the right engine. I know that a few were built with
unusually a Volvo 140 hp petrol outdrive to give approx 17 knots for coastal
cruising - think these were the only Freemans built with outdrives. |
Reply
2
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
For a displacement hull, the formula
for speed through the water:
Knots=1.34 times square root of waterline length.
So assume a wll of 22 ft the max speed is 1.34 * 4.69 = 6.28. Which
compares with your estimate of 6 knots.
If you want higher speed you must get on the
plane, difficult with small freemans but to double the speed you would
have to increase the engine power by a factor of eight
10 knots must have been down stream with
a following wind!!!!
|
|
We are buying a 24 thats had the
gas heating removed, any ideas on the best system to replace it with.
|
Reply 1
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
The best is Wabesto, but expensive
and only diesel fired. Alternatives are paraffin with integral tank, charcoal
(messy) or a portable catalytic (see section 8 of new BSS manual)
Problem with non balanced flue units is that you may have to increase
the cabin ventilation openings (Bss manual sect 8 Page 10)
Look at www.go2marine.com and www.bengco.co.uk or type in boat heaters
on bbc search engine.
I have not been able to find butane/propane units small enough for boat
use that would comply with the regs.
Catalytic types do increase condensation problems as they have no flue
Look also at www.seamark-nunn.co.uk who do a force 10 unit on paraffin
with intergral tank |
|
I've recently bought a Freeman 23 which was regularly
taking water through this shaft. After seeing a recently fitted narrowboat
having a large brass cylinder fitted filled with grease with a screw tap
on top, I decided that this was a good idea as putting grease in the tiny
screw cap and screwing down and repeating the operation many times seemed
endless.
Fitting this was easy as all you have to do is drill a hole in the cap
and tap it. The brass fitting can then be fixed in and since the tube
carrying the greas is quite long, you can put the cylinder -tap almost
anywhere convenient, I had to pu quite a lot of grease in initially but
am now dry underneath. a turn of the tap now and again seems suffice.
PS This cost just £30 for the cylinder tap and fitting! Well worth
it! And now I'm high and dry.
|
GAUGE
FOR TOILET HOLDING TANK
|
Has anybody fitted a gauge to a toilet waste holding
tank.I have a stainless steel tank and have been quoted £40.00 for
a sender & guage that does fresh & waste water up to over £100.00
for a specialised one that just does waste. Anybody any ideas or if they
think the cheaper one will be o.k!!
|
Reply 1
barry_hales@linone.net |
We have a freeman 24 the tank is under the front
bunk on the right hand side. It's a metal tank but you can get other types.
The only drawback is it only holds 12galls and only lasts about 7-10 days
with two of us using it at £6.00 a time to pump out. C.A.K Tanks
specialise in these. Tel:08707572324 |
Reply 2
richard.stamford@domino-printing.co.uk |
£40 for a sensor and gauge, even if the
gauge is tank mounted seems very reasonable. Alternatively a trip to the
scrapyard should buy you a windscreen washbottle sensor which will do
much the same thing, wired to a simple warning light on the dash (or in
the heads......!!)
|
WATER
IN THE BOWS
FREEMAN Mk1
|
My wife & I have just bought a Freeman mk1.
After our maiden voyage we have taken in water at the bow. We contacted
the person we bought the boat from and he has said the water has entered
the boat from a chrome inlet on the top of the bow which has no cap on
it. Can anyone please tell us if this is possible and also what the inlet
is for. As you can no doubt tell this is our first boat and we wanted
a classic |
Reply
1
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
Great on getting
a Freeman. Now is the connection about 1ft back from the bow in the
deck. protruding about 1 to 2" above deck level. If so this is
the anchor chain outlet and feeds into the chain locker in between the
two front berths.(At least it does on my Freeman) Rain water can get
into this connection and run into the locker and then find its way into
the berth lockers. How much water are you getting. Other ways for water
to get in is through the pulpit fixing holes.(Presume you are not battling
through gales in the channel!!!!)
A cap for the connection can be obtained from Sheridan Marine, cost
about £30.00. But suggest that you tape a small tin over the connection
first to see if that stops the water.
Has your boat got a blanked off sea toilet connection in the starboard
front berth locker. The seals on this sometimes start to leak. Another
sensitive point is the waste discharge from the galley sink. This is
very near the water line and if the rubber outlet tube is cracked or
the seal round the skin connection has failed, this will let water into
the cabin space. (Mine did)
The cap has a slot in it to slip over the chain links, remember to remove
it before dropping anchor /mudweight or it will cost you 30 quid to
replace. My crew lost mine at Marlow!!!
The hole, (correct expression is hawse pipe) leads into a locker up
in the bow, in between the forward V berths. There should be a little
cover with a finger hole in it. On removing the cover you may be lucky
and find some chain, in any case there should be a ring fixing in the
locker to which the end of the chain can be fixed with a shackle.
Normally the chain will go down by its own weight when stowing the anchor,
but you will have a job to get rope down as it aint heavy enough
|
FREEMAN
22 FITTING WEED HATCH?
|
We have a freeman 22 which is on the Chesterfield
canal and we are finding it very difficult to cope with the weed geting
caught around the prop.Has anyboby fitted a weed hatch to a Freeman 22,
and is it a very difficult job? |
Reply
1
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
I have not fitted
a weed hatch, but did look at the subject of prop fouling before contemplating
going on the Thames tideway.
It seemed to be very difficult and I did not proceed for the following
reasons:
1. Distance between P bracket (Bearing housing for prop shaft) and the
rudder stock is very limited)so hatch would be very limited in size.
2. Access to clean would require repositioning the calor gas storage
box and modification to the cockpit seating.
Have you thought of fitting a rope cutter to the propshaft, they can
be very effective and do not entail cutting holes in the hull. |
|
We own a Freeman 22 Mk1 and are about to embark
on our first holiday for 2 weeks next Tuesday. We are a bit concerned
about carrying petrol on board and wondered what other owners feel about
this. Also does anyone know what the capacity of the fuel tank is? I think
it is the original. And does anyone know how many hours you get to the
gallon? Any comments/help would be most appreciated. |
Reply 1
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
The Thames authorities really don't like jerry
cans full of petrol externally or internally. They spotted me doing just
that, two cans by the pulpit - perfectly safe- but a no no for them. Empty
jerry cans are OK, I believe, even though vapour is more likely to explode
than liquid! Think about converting your water tank, which is stainless
and identical to the petrol tank, to another fuel tank and fitting a flexible
water tank and electric pump under the forward berth, either port or starboard.
I did this to my Freeman 22 in 1992 and it works very well; I have a range
on internal tanks enough to get from Briare to Paris easily. Thr French
don't care if you carry full jerry cans on the pulpit! |
Reply 2
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
If you want to
do this conversion, the outlet from the water tank is a larger diameter
and different thread to the petrol tank. You'll need a fuel tap aand
conversion threaded adaptor. Then use copper tube as per the original
to a tee piece junction to join the two tank sdupplies together; I've
never bothered with tank selection valves, you can just turn the tanks
on or off as required. You'll need to cut a hole in the top of the old
water tank for an overflow/vent pipe and fit a suitable adapter. Then,
using approved flexible petrol hose and a copper tee piece, link the
two vents together. Ensure that you have electrical continuity throughout
by wiring together the fillers, tanks and vent outlet. This can be done
by inserting the stripped end of an insulated wire between the filler
pipe and the fillers and tanks when you clamp up the filler pipes. This
is ESSENTIAL. Static electric discharge can ignite the petrol vapour
in the tanks and ruin your day. I always refuel from jerrycans using
a commercially available siphon pump; I have extended the tubes on this
to reach the bottom of the jerrycan and the bottom of the tank, when
the can rests on the top of the rear seat. My sequence is as follows:
remove filler cap, fit one end of earthing wire to filler using crocodile
clip. Open jerrycan; fit other end of earth lead to jerrycan - scrape
some paint off the handles for a good connection - then insert siphon
pump into can and filler. Squeeze bulb until fuel is siphoning. Once
can is empty, remove siphon pump then disconnect earth lead from can
and then filler. This sequence prevents any possibility of static discharge
causing a spark and hence an explosion. Pouring petrol fom can to tank
is fraught with splashes and spillagee, even if you use a funnel, and
there is still the problem of static electricity caused by moving liquid.
When I was Flying aeroplanes for the RAF, they showed us a film of a
helicopter being refueled in the artic using jerrycans and a funnel;
the object lesson was when a static spark ignited the fuel. The helicopter
was destroyed in short order and the refuelling crew broke the world
record for the 50 yard dash whilst wearing fur jacket and trousers!!
Be careful out there! Ensure that all fuel pipes are copper, clipped
in place and proper compression fittings are used; no bits of old plastic
pipe please.With this mod. you should always hsave enough range to get
to a fuel supply. A standard wheely trolley for suitcases fits, when
folded, into the centre locker under the rear seat
|
Reply 3
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
Hi. If its the original tank, the
capacity I think is about 15 gallons. (say 60 -65 litres) If you have
a a 1300cc cross flow engine you should use between 0.3 and 0.5 gallons/hour
at a through the water speed of 5 miles per hour.
For longish trips I carry 20 litre jerry can, (the tall thin one usually
painted olive green. This is kept on the foredeck tied firmly to the pulpit.
Put a piece of rubber under the jerry can to stop it marking the deck.
If you are leaving the boat also suggest you chain and lock the can to
the pulpit.
NEVER STORE PETROL CANS IN THE COCKPIT OR IN THE CABIN
Suggest you carry a dipstick if you have not already got one, easily made
out of a piece of 3/8" round wood obtainable from any wood yard.
(Sheridan do one low cost) |
SPRINGY
FOREDECK
phil@jpwild.freeserve.co.uk
|
I have done this repair
to my Freeman 24. Remove all the bedding & shelving from the inside
of bow cabin. Remove & reseal All deck fittings with the sheridan
sealing tape. The spongy deck is caused by the water rotting the foam
between the deck skins. Drill a lot of small holes all over the underside
of the deck, say 150 mm appart, sized to suit the foam injection tube.
You will find most of the original foam will have gone. allow a week or
two for the cavity to dry out. use the expanding foam very very carefully
to fill the cavity. Allow to dry, then cut flush with underside of deck.
seal with GRP resin & paint to match. Warning. take care not to overfill
the cavity as it wiil bow the deck up & down this will cause problems
when re-fitting the shelvs. The foam will stick to every thing in site.
Does any one know how to remove dry foam from the deck as I manged to
tread in some wet foam & walked it aroung the bow deck.
Hope this helps. the result was very good the deck does not move now. |
USING
SEALING TAPE
ADVICE 1
bob.onley@uk.ngrid.com
|
Mastic tape comes an inch wide for
deck fittings over an inch wide is it a case of using strips next to one
another, and so avoiding any gaps |
USING SEALING TAPE
ADVICE 2
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk
|
I use a stanley knife and put a 45 degree chamfer
on the joining edges, which ensures no gap when fitting screwed down.
Also when the fitting is down you can then smmoth down the outside edges
with a suitable implement, which will then seal the outer edge.
I have found that it is more effective if the tape is warm. keep it between
your hands for a while or use a hairdrier carefully on low before you
strip the paper off. |
|
Has anyone any experiences/recommendations for
mobile osmosis treatment companies or DIY treatment? I have a late Mk1
on the Thames at Oxford. |
Reply 1
aalibee@aol.com |
Cut the affected area out with appropriate holesaw
to a firm area, if right through you will have to put a board on the inside
with a non stick face. mix resin with loose chopped glassfibre (not on
a roll)and fill hole. tape on a patch of decamel or hold in with masking
tape until cured . then do a gel repair to make it water proof. if you
holesaw right through lay up a patch on the inside to strengthen hole. |
Reply
1
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
Cutting great holes in the hull with
a holesaw is a bit drastic. I did the osmosis on my Freeman 22 in 1992
using Wests Epoxy. Get the boat out of the water and remove all the gelcoat
up to 6 inches above the waterline. This is best done with a hot air paintstripping
gun, scrapers and a pair of pliers. Heat it up until it becomes plastic,
use the scraper to get through the gelcoat and the first layer of cloth
scrim. After that, it's matting. Then you can grab the cloth with the
pliers and peel it off in strips, heating as you go. A 22 footer takes
about 40 hours to do! Then allow it to dry right out. Youu sdhould be
under cover and the hot air gun will have speeded up this process. I left
the boat for two months in this state, and then checked with a (borrowed!)
moisture meter until it was dry. One point to remember; the semicircular
reinforrcing sections you can see inside the hull are formed over a hollow
aluminium section, and these can fill with water! They caan be drained
by drilling holes in the bottom of them, allowing to dry out, then filling
with epoxy filler. Once the hull is dry, roll on a coat of West epoxy
followed by a layer of epoxy compatible glass cloth, then more epoxy with
water resistant additive until you have a good thickness, comparable with
the original gelcoat. Wests are very helpful and supply very good instructions
and a video, also all tools and materials. It's a heck of a job but great
when it's finished - remember, anybody who does this commercially hsas
to show a profit and thus it's very expensive. DIY should cost less than
£1000; mine cost about £450 for materials in 1992. II also
resprayed the hull using acrylic car paint down to the waterline; BMC
Arum White is the best colour match and any subsequent scratches or dings
can easily be completely removed. Use signwriters film for boot topping,
any colour you like and the suppliers will cut any width to give you a
50 metre roll. |
Reply 3
aalibee@aol.com |
A warm air paint stripper
is an ideal way to dry the area but the area must be cooled down before
applying resin glass infill or it will cure too fast.
I do use it to help with the curing, but not to close. |
PETROL
v DIESEL
|
For a while now, we
have been considering replacing the petrol engine in our 22 MkII with
a diesel one. Does anyone have any advice or opinions on this? For example,
how much more noise and smell should we expect in the cabin with a diesel
engine, and is there a convenient engine available which will fit in the
existing engine bay |
Reply 1
lewisset@aol.com |
We replaced our engine
last year. Our mechanic asked us if we wanted a diesel or replace the
original Watermota. We love the sound our engine makes, so opted for petrol.
If you do decide to go for petrol, make sure the new engine will take
unleaded (I think you have to have the valve seats replaced).
The great thing about diesel, is the cost saving; using red diesel is
so much cheaper and has wider availability.
|
Reply 2
peepster38@btopenworld.com |
I would go for rebuilding
the watermota engine over the diesel option as you will lose a lot of
refinement and gain some vibration as well as the possibility of needing
to ballast the bows to compensate for the extra weight of the diesel unit.
the cost saving of diesel doesnt add up to much its not as if your using
the boat every day. i have piloted freeman 23 with both watermota petrol
and perkins diesel engnes and found the petrol much quieter and far cheaper
to maintain. i have never seen the point of putting a diesel engine in
a small fibreglass cruiser |
Reply 3
drowland@aol.com |
If your petrol engine
is in good nick it's a complete waste of time and money changing to diesel.
Even if you use your boat every weekend in the summer, that's maybe 150
hours annual use, you will probably save £200 a year in fuel., but
youll save on the servicing with the petrol engine so it would take you
many years to re-coup your outlay.
The petrol is a nicer sound anyway and that's what classic boating is
all about! |
Reply
4
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
Some were fitted with
small Perkins diesel units,(4103) but in the main were petrol engines.
Sheridan, I think, does a Nanni 3 cylinder diesel unit but when I looked
into it, the cost for replacement was in the region of £4000. At
this price I doubt if you would ever show a return on the capital.
I rebuilt my Watermota for about £500. It runs perfectly well on
unleaded without any valve mods as the unit runs too cold for valve regression.
I have a boating friend who replaced his crossflow with a Ford 1.9litre
diesel unit ,ex crashed van, with bought in marinising equipment. It cost
him about £1600. His son modified the engine and he fitted it himself.
Took about 6 months including building the engine up. Had to make some
mods to the engine bay and there is more vibration.
The major problem with Petrol is that it is getting more difficult to
obtain waterside due to the latest storage regulations. There is some
petrol available on the Thames, Shepperton, Windsor, Henley & Abingdon,
but otherwise its a ferrying job with cans. This situation will only get
worse in the years to come. Despite these problems, my conclusion for
the short term stay with petrol. |
FREEMAN
22' ENGINE
CONVERSION
|
Can anyone tell me what diesel engine I could
put in my 22 mk 2. I would like to use a second hand engine what would
be the problems if any. |
REPLY 1
Malcolm Pendlebury
|
I have a 22 Mk1 with a 1.5 BMC diesel fitted.
It does need a shoe horn to get it in and you loose the width of the
saloon seat unless it is raised.
Its a bit of a job to do and a 3 cylinder diesel from Vetus would
be better and smaller.
The fuel tanks need changing too as they
cant be galvanised for diesel.
|
PETROL
|
our old mk1 called bagpus
still runs on LRP could anybody tell us if we can use unleaded with or
without a adative as we our finding it hard to get LRP apart from this
(what a boat) |
Reply
1
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
On the subject of unleaded fuel; I've been operating
my Freeman 22 (1200 non crossflow Ford) on unleaded for the psst three
years. I use the Castrol additive and have had no problems, either trickling
down the canals or 7 knots for hours on the Seine. I also use the Castrol
octane enhancing type lead replacement additive in my Lotus Esdprit Turbo
and that is also troublefree. I agree with Bill that additives are probably
not necessary with low stressed marine engines. This year,I fitted Lucas
electronic ignition and it is a definite improvement, a rock steady idle
at 600 rpm and first time starting |
Reply 2
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
The subject of which
petrol seems to be raising its ugly head again, I have posted an enquiry
to see what experience is out there, but replys to date are nill!!!!
I HAVE A 23 WITH A 1300CC ohv Cross Flow engine and have run it OK for
the last 4 years since a rebuild on unleaded without any problems. There
does not appear to be any valve regression problem. The 'experts' are
of the opinion that valve regression should not occur in boat engines
as the engines run very cold and not at high revs. Valve regression would
happen in a similar engine running in a car at much higher revs (4-5000)
and higher temperature. 1800 to 2000 rpm should not cause any problems.
There have been some rumours that additives can cause some problems but
have not yet found any factual evidence. Opinion is they are best not
used.
I can get leaded (at £1 a litre at Marlow
and Wargrave) and I fill up on this once a season. There is a phenomenon
known as Lead Memory, which will protect the exhaust valve seats for
the equivalent of 2000 car miles. If leaded is available near you I
would suggest you should do this as insurance, but it is probably not
necessary, I only do it because I can get it 0.5 miles away from my
mooring.
My experience is unleaded runs OK without any problems and I did not
have to alter timing or touch the carb settings.
I have never used an additive with unleaded.
|
GOING
TO SEA
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com
|
Don't know how many
of you use a Freeman 22, or other raw water cooled engined boat, for occasional
Channel crossings or sea work, but I thought I'd share a problem which
can occur and thusd, hopefully, obviate that icy clutching feeling in
the stomach you get when far from land and overheating badly! If sae water
ggets hotter than abouut 80 deg C, there is a tendency for salt to come
out of solution and form crystals. Our engines run much cooler then this,
but the point ibn the injection bend where thw cooling water joins the
exhaust gets to critical temperature, crystals form, the cooling water
is blocked and the engine overheats. It's a good idea to check the injection
jet is clear before putting to sea; a suitable dill bit twiddled through
with the fingers will suffice. Saves a lot of heartburn! |
Reply 1
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
Good point, but this can happen on
rivers/canals as well if the water is very hard. Chalk stream tributaries!!!
Also some have replaced the engine thermostat with car stats which run
hotter than the 78 C that should be fitted to watermotor engines.
What happens is that temporary hardness (calcium bicarbonate) comes out
of solution at just over 80C and not only does the exhaust injector nozzle
gets blocked but the small passages in the cylinder head block up as well,
a much more difficult and costly job to fix.
The previous owner of my 23 fitted a higher temperature stat which resulted
in a blocked and cracked cylinder head.
So check the exhaust nozzle at least once a season and make sure that
your thermostat is marked no higher than 78C |
WINTERISING
|
Am I mad to leave my
Mk I on off-stream Thames mooring thro' coming winter? (Cant really afford
to lift ashore this year). What can I do to protect the engine against
frost, if anything? Has anyone got some tips/tales to share! |
Reply 1
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
Well, you might be mad, but Freemans (Freemen?!)
seem able to withstand most things. I used to thoroughly winterise mine
until, one year a long time ago, I used her on a nice late Autumn weekend
and didn't get back until spring! No problems AT ALL were encountered,
engine started up fine and the season duly commenced. I would not recommend
this, though. The essential things are:
!) Ensure engine cooling seacock is shut
2) drain engine block
3) loosen water pump cover
4) drain water tank and calorifier if fitted
5) turn off fuel tap
6) pump out bilges
7) check condition of hose from basin to outlet
turn off gas and battery
9) it's a good idea to change the oil, both engine and gearbox, at this
point, Stops the engine spending all winter in contact with dirty and
possibly corrosive oil.
My boat has endured being frozen in for two months in the Port de Plaisance
in Briare, the ice was 30cm thick in the middle of the harbour, and no
mishaps. They are very hardy boats; also electrolytic corrosion is not
a problem as everything underwater is bronze; no dissimilar metals, no
corrosion - they knew a thing or two when designing these!! Check for
any leaks from windows and DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEM even if it's only a
drip tray. Winter should hold no terrors; also boating on a still winter's
day - or, better still, night, can be magnificent. I well remember a New
Year spent on Trillium at Old Windsor; no traffic, tranquillity, marvellous!
Good luck with your aquatic endeavours
|
BOAT
AGE
|
I have a Freeman 22 MK1. I keep it
on the Norfolk Broads and was wondering how old the vessel is. I cannot
find any data plates giving any info. Does anyone know how old it could
be by comparing the fitting ect..? Also does anyone have a spare hood
for sale, as my is getting a bit tatty. I know they are available new
at around £420+ vat. A little bit more than I want to pay at the
moment |
Reply
1
steve@hostelry.freeserve.co,uk |
I found a hand engraved plate in
the box below my dashboard.
It said model 26 twin, serial no.6789 29.10.70 so have a root round. |
VARNISHING
|
Has anybody revarnished
a panel with original finish results? please let me kow how to do it! |
Reply 1
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
I believe the original
finish was a sprayed polyurethane varnish - and jolly tough stuff it is,
too, having stripped it all of from the cockpit woodwork, back in 93.
This enables you to get back to the original mahogany coulur; a bit of
suitable stain also helps. I used a hot air gun and scrapers - carefully!
- the main bulkhead and sides are fibreboard veneered with a thin veneer
- the used an orbital sander, before refinishing with West's two pack
polyurethane varnish. Several coats for the perfect job, flatted down
between each coat with fine wetordri paper used wet; 600 grade would be
the coarsest to use, 1200 grade would be better - it all depends on how
masochistic you are! The results have withstood the test of time, and
9 years later are still good. I've found the West's products to be much
superior to any other, and easily available by mail order from them. They're
jolly helpful, too, with all sorts of pamphlets and even a video. The
finish will lighten with time and exposure to sun; ideally, every season
you should flat off the varnish with 1200 grade and apply one thin coat
all over, this keeps everything spot on. Me, I'm too lazy for that so
I've just left it and it still looks good. I did mine in a boathouse on
the Thames, and when I had all the cockpit wood work dismantled and lying
about he place being refinished I was accused of making the place look
like an antique shop! I hope this helps; the secret of a good finish is
simply hard work, attention to detail, lots of rubbing down and COMPLETE
CLEANLINESS when applying the varnish. Two thin coats better than one
thick, and don't be tempted to rush it, that way lies ruin. |
RECHROMING
|
My deck cleats have lost some of
their chrome. Also the horn is in a bad way. Which is the more economical.
Rechroming or replacing them from the famous boat yard. |
Reply
1
John.Douglas@bushinternet.com |
When I refitted my 22
footer in 1993, I, too, wanted to rechrome the fittings. The prices I
was quoted for this were astronomical, absolutely prohibitive. I ended
up stripping the chrome mechanically from the bow roller, mast foot, nav
lights and handrail stanchions, polishing them using a mop in an electric
drill - metal polishing kits are advertised in the motorcycling press
- then lacquering the result using West's two pack polyurethane varnish.
Jolly nice and shiny it looks, too; needs redoing every two or three seasons,
but it only takes a couple of days to do. The cleats for the mooring lines
and fenders were replaced with alloy ones, larger than the original, bolted
through the decks with brass plates to spread the load inside and out.
I reckon you could just about lift the boat on these cleats now! All of
this cost far less than rechroming and the end result is very pleasing
and more effective. If you are determined to go the rechroming route,
I suggest you have a look at the classic car magazines, they list rechroming
facilitites but be prepared for a shock! |
FUEL
TANK WINTERISING
|
This being my first
boat(Mk.3. 23')and first winterisation, what should I do with the fuel
tank. Fill it or empty it.I've read differing views |
Reply 1
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
All I have done on my
23 for the last 6 years is to leave the tank about 1/4 full but put tape
round the vent to keep the air out. At the start of the season remove
the tape, put in 5 gallons of fresh fuel and away you go. Never had any
problems. Assume its petrol you use. If diesel generally the advice is
to fill the tank, but that may be to protect mild steel tanks.
presume your tank is the round stainless steel one
|
| Response |
Thanks for the tip Bill.
I forgot to mention that it,s a petrol engine. The fuel tank is original
but I think it,s
going to have to be changed to a top feeder when the safety scheme for
the Broads is finalised. |
Reply 2
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
Yes it will require
top feed. Dont get ripped off when you have to change. Boatyards around
the Thames were asking silly sums to do this job, up to £120!!!!.
Got a car valeting firm to steam out the tank
for £10.00 dried it out with the wifes hair dryer poked in the
filler connection and had a 3/8" bsp socket welded in the top for
a fiver at a local SS fabricator..
Inspection not too bad if you use a good marine surveyor, who knows
Freemans
Just had my second one done and passed OK. The
regs are a bit less arduous than the first time, but they have got very
picky on gas systems and cabin ventilation. Had a problem with gas pressure
test, which in the end turned out to be problems with the cooker controls,
the old Vanessa valves leak slightly if they are not used for long periods,
not enough to cause a danger, but enough to fail the test. Work them
a few times and the problem tends to go away.
|
HEADLINING
|
We have a 31 year old
Freeman 23 (Mahala Jo): the interior headlining (not sure if original)
has turned from 'old english white' to more of a mushroom/taupe colour
- any ideas how we can restore to orginal colour (short of ripping it
out and re-lining!)?
|
Reply
1
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
You could try International
White anticondensation paint, but may not stick to certain plastic. Dont
think head linings were standard, mine is gell coat and the above paint
is very good on that.
|
IGNITION
SWITCH PANEL
|
I bought a 1967 Freeman 22 three
weeks ago as a project. After handing over the readies I climbed aboard
to discover that the ignition and "dashboard" for want of a
more accurate description, was missing.I am a firm believer in restoring
things as they were intended to be, which is why I am here. If anybody
knows of or has got in their posession said "dashboard" please,
please contact me. One in shiny condition would be ideal, but anything
is better than the gaping hole that is there at present. |
Reply 1
bill @ whighfield.fsnet.co.uk |
You could cut one out of 3/8",-1/2"
ali sheet and use black crackle paint. I refirbed mine with crackle paint
which came up well using the kitchen oven!!! Dont cook the weekend joint
at the same time. If this route is chosen I may even have some paint left.
The 22 I think of that age had an oval panel, my 23 is rectangular but
a template should be easy to come by . |
DISCOLOURED
HULL
|
My boat's
hull is very dicoloured with lots of black rubber scuff's from the marina
wall. I have been informed that painting the hull is fatal for the future
resale value. Any advice would be appreciated.
I'd like to paint the to the anti fouling line with green, as the rear
canopy is fairly new and is green.The other half thinks it will look better???????
F finally, does anybody know a good sign writer in the Derby, Nottingham
area, as the transfer stickers are falling off and look tatty. |
Reply 1
lewwiset@aol.com |
Check out http://freemancruisers.com/
they can supply all Freeman stuff, the place is in Moulsford in Oxfordshire
(well worth a visit) As to staining on your hull, there are some very
good amonia based cleaners on the market, go to any chandlers (it may
be w |